
It is amazing that despite the fact that the whole world is asking Muslims to take this kind of rhetoric out of the Koran Muslims still preach it so publicly. Islam is different than any other religion in the sense that its followers believe that their book cannot be revised or changed. It is the final revelation from Allah and cannot be changed. This is doctrine that ALL Muslims believe in. You cannot be a Muslim unless you believe that. Until Muslims are willing to revise or allow their religion to be critically analyzed, such as what happened to Christianity, there will be no hope for peace.
From the transcript:
The Koran used terms that are closer to animals than to humans only with regard to those people. Look at the bestiality they demonstrate in the destruction of the Arab, Lebanese, and Palestinian people. This is why the people who were given the Torah were likened to a donkey carrying books. They were also likened to apes and pigs, and they are, indeed, the descendants of apes and pigs, as the Koran teaches us.
Muslims -- as far as I understand -- consider Allah to be the same god as the Jewish god and the Christian god. They also believe that the three religions, referred to as the Abrahamic religions and their followers, "the People of the Book" are all descended from the Biblical patriarch Abraham. The Jews are the descendants of Isaac, Abraham's child with his wife Sarah, and the Arabs are descended from Ishmael, his child with his handmaiden Hagar. So... where do the pigs and apes come in?
It comes from the Koran. As far as their belief in God they do not believe in the same God. Allah is NOT the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Allah is an Arabic name that combine the names Allat and Uzzah in one. both were pagan gods that Arabs worshipped before Islam. When Mohammad claimed he received messages from angels he didn't want to shock the pagans with new gods and worships so he combined that names of the two gods in Allah. Here are the verses where the Jews are described as Apes (2:66) "[65] And well ye knew those amongst you who transgressed in the matter of the Sabbath; We said to them: "Be ye apes, despised and rejected." You can check it here on the official Quran website hosted by the Saudi Govt. Here is another reference in the Koran from the same site "[166] When in their insolence they transgressed (all) prohibitions, We said to them: "Be ye apes, despised and rejected." (Surah 7:166). There is more but I don't have the time right now.
Allah is an Arabic name that combine the names Allat and Uzzah in one. both were pagan gods that Arabs worshipped before Islam.
I do not like the way religious people make such sweeping comments with the word "Pagan". Pre-Islamic ways were Astrological, and the Kaaba contained the twelve Astrological symbols we all know. The Moon and its symbolism was represented, and they called it Allah. Every symbol had a prominent family responsible for it, and the twelve families took it in turn to clean the sanctuary. The Qureshi family was responsible for the Moon. But the Sun had a more prominent position.
In 7th Century Iran the High Priest was alarmed of the spread of Christianity, and warned the Emperor Yazdigerd to adopt a theocracy basic on ideologies of the state and not free will and human rights, as the people were converting too fast. This Priest called Salman Parsi was thrown out, and he was employed by the Qureshi family to teach their son, Halabi. Salman taught Halabi the art of war, and how he could take Mecca, banish all the other eleven symbols, kill Astrologer in Arabia and perform a miracle when the Sun is darkened. Salman knew when the Eclipse was about to take place over Mecca, and Halabi became recognised as a Mohammed.
Like Judaism and Christianity, Islam is considered an Abrahamic religion.
Muslims believe that God revealed his direct word for humanity to Muhammad (c. 570–632) through the angel Gabriel and earlier prophets, including Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, and Jesus. Muslims believe that Muhammad is the last prophet, based on the Qur'anic phrase "Seal of the Prophets" and sayings of the prophet of Islam himself, and that his teachings for humanity will last until the Day of the Resurrection. Muslims assert that the main written record of revelation to humanity is the Qur'an, which is flawless, immutable, and which Muslims believe is the final revelation of God to humanity.
Muslims hold that Islam is the same belief as that of all the messengers sent by God to humanity since Adam, with the Qur'an, the text used by all sects of the Muslim faith, codifying the final revelation of God. Islamic texts depict Judaism and Christianity as prophetic successor traditions to the teachings of Abraham. The Qur'an calls Jews and Christians "People of the Book", and distinguishes them from "Polytheists".
Thanks, Jon. I didn't have time to respond to Sidiwda, who, I am sure is quoting correctly from the Qur'an, even though those quotes seem to be at odds with the basic tenets of Islam as I've always understood them. Despite the claim that the Qur'an is "flawless," contradictions have been known to creep into religious texts occasionally.
The Koranic quotes that I use are direct from the Koran. My response above has links to the Ministry of Islamic Affairs in Saudi which hosts the Koran in 6 languages on its website with 4 different interpretations. There are more references in the Koran to the same effect. The 'peaceful' parts in the Koran were 'revealed' when Mohammad was weak living in Mecca among his enemies and it was his declared policy, which is still an Islamic policy till this day, that when you live among enemies who are stronger than you, to pursue peace and speak peacefully. But once you have gained strength to fight you go after your enemy with all your might. Thus, when Mohammad left Mecca and went to Medina and formed an army new 'revelations' about the Jews and Christians started to appear which called for their annihilation. Muhammad went after the three Medina Jewish tribes and destroyed them utterly. In Islam there is the concept of 'Nasekh' which means that old revelations are revoked by new revelations. The new revelations about Jews and Christians being apes and pigs revoked the influence of the earlier revelations even though both exist in the same book. The fact that they exist in the same book is a part of the military strategy that Muhammad devised in 600 AD and is still being used today. The peaceful parts of the Koran are doing a good job tricking and misleading the West which seems to not believe that Islam can be so horrible while at the same time Muslims dig in and reinforce their positions. But now, that Muslims think they have a favorable position the so called 'radicals', who are actually the one applying the Koran, speak more openly about their hate and venomous agenda..
In our Iranian texts we know that Salman actually taught Halabi Qureshi (aka Mohammed) to attack his own people to gain power, by using an old Iranian tactic that the Sassanians used - namely that they surrounded the city and starved it to death. Our texts mention that Salman taught Halabi that he was the true heir to Abraham as his ancestor were from Abraham's first wife, who was Egyptian.
So this whole mess we are in is all about Abraham's sons. Big deal. And how many people have died for this. Abe has a lot to answer for. So many good Arab Astrologers and wise men were killed.
What goes around, comes around. The biggest challenge for the Saudis will be when all this really comes to the fore as Old Iranian texts become more available once these Islamists are out. Remember Persia was the Empire of the world at that time and many Iranian have all this info, and will surely show it to all. Arabian were always friends to the ancient Iranians, and the fought along side Cambyses when he conquered Egypt.
The Koranic quotes that I use are direct from the Koran.
The Koran is in Arabic. Your quotes are not. You would be quoting from a translation, which is interpreted from the Koran, and interpretations can at many times be bat@!$%# insane.
Sir, you are arguing against the translation posted on the site owned by the government of Saudi Arabia which published and authorizes all translations of the Koran. I used that particular translation and pointed out that fact exactly to avoid all of these denying-the-obvious arguments. I am a native speaker of Arabic and a tested level 5 English speaker and have spent the last 15 years of my life translating, editing and writing text. If you would like I can send you a Koran translated by other scholars. What the Koran says is the same.
In Iran we believed in reason and dialectic determinism and something very close to existentialism. Idealism as preached by Abrahamic religion was regarded as interfering with Free Will.
Ali, maybe I'm not understanding the concept of "dialectic determinism," but for me, "determinism" has always been described as an opposite of Free Will. In Judaism, the Abrahamic religion I am most familiar with, free will is considered one of the defining characteristics of humanity. We are free to make choices and mistakes, with the understanding that there are consequences to every choice. How does idealism interfere with that?
In Zoroastrian dualism everything has its opposite. To oppose this, the idealists sought to come up with a set of unversal statements that are unargueable. The 7000 year Holy book of Iran called Zend-Avesta, which by the way has great links to the Rigveda, contains what remains of the old thoughts from the old Iranians. It refers to the Good Mind that is Wise in the person.
The old Iranians were interested in the ways to solving the problems in the here and now, and creating heaven on Earth. And with that Good attitude they created the very process of determining what needs to be done to realise that which is Good. The process of determining was that, the Good Thought must become Good Words to share, then the Good Words to share must be applied into Good Deeds. That is the determinism.
Much of these thoughts later found their way into other younger religions and philosophies, but no one in Iran accused them of plagiarism. Anyway the curious mind, and dialogue was deemed to be the path to finding truth. Just like we are doing now. This is a far cry from the idealism that states there is one book and one thought and that's it.
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